diff --git a/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawView.cpp b/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawView.cpp
index 4e7d0e7c6f..930b454956 100644
--- a/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawView.cpp
+++ b/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawView.cpp
@@ -92,6 +92,7 @@ DrawView::~DrawView()
 
 App::DocumentObjectExecReturn *DrawView::execute(void)
 {
+    requestPaint();
     return App::DocumentObject::StdReturn;                //DO::execute returns 0
 }
 
@@ -137,13 +138,12 @@ void DrawView::onChanged(const App::Property* prop)
                         Scale.purgeTouched();
                     }
                 }
-                }
-//            }
-        }
-        if (prop == &X ||       //nothing needs to be calculated, just the graphic needs to be shifted.
-            prop == &Y) {
-            requestPaint();
+            }
         }
+//        if (prop == &X ||       //nothing needs to be calculated, just the graphic needs to be shifted.
+//            prop == &Y) {
+//            requestPaint();
+//        }
     }
     App::DocumentObject::onChanged(prop);
 }
@@ -153,7 +153,9 @@ short DrawView::mustExecute() const
     short result = 0;
     if (!isRestoring()) {
         result  =  (Scale.isTouched()  ||
-                    ScaleType.isTouched() );
+                    ScaleType.isTouched() ||
+                    X.isTouched() ||
+                    Y.isTouched() );
     }
     if ((bool) result) {
         return result;
@@ -207,6 +209,23 @@ bool DrawView::isInClip()
     return false;
 }
 
+DrawViewClip* DrawView::getClipGroup(void)
+{
+    std::vector<App::DocumentObject*> parent = getInList();
+    App::DocumentObject* obj = nullptr;
+    DrawViewClip* result = nullptr;
+    for (std::vector<App::DocumentObject*>::iterator it = parent.begin(); it != parent.end(); ++it) {
+        if ((*it)->getTypeId().isDerivedFrom(DrawViewClip::getClassTypeId())) {
+            obj = (*it);
+            result = dynamic_cast<DrawViewClip*>(obj);
+            break;
+
+        }
+    }
+    return result;
+}
+
+
 double DrawView::autoScale(double w, double h) const
 {
     double fudgeFactor = 0.90;
diff --git a/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawView.h b/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawView.h
index 0d389b6030..c615984298 100644
--- a/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawView.h
+++ b/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawView.h
@@ -36,6 +36,7 @@ namespace TechDraw
 {
 
 class DrawPage;
+class DrawViewClip;
 
 /** Base class of all View Features in the drawing module
  */
@@ -67,6 +68,7 @@ public:
     void Restore(Base::XMLReader &reader) override;
 
     bool isInClip();
+    DrawViewClip* getClipGroup(void);
 
     /// returns the type name of the ViewProvider
     virtual const char* getViewProviderName(void) const override {
diff --git a/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawViewClip.cpp b/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawViewClip.cpp
index 4b72116e2d..cf2a74cd43 100644
--- a/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawViewClip.cpp
+++ b/src/Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawViewClip.cpp
@@ -78,8 +78,8 @@ void DrawViewClip::addView(DrawView *view)
     std::vector<App::DocumentObject *> newViews(currViews);
     newViews.push_back(view);
     Views.setValues(newViews);
-    view->X.setValue(Width.getValue()/2.0);
-    view->Y.setValue(Height.getValue()/2.0);
+    view->X.setValue(0.0);                   //position in centre of clip group frame
+    view->Y.setValue(0.0);
     auto page = findParentPage();             //get Page to release child relationship in tree
     page->Views.touch();
 }
diff --git a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/Command.cpp b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/Command.cpp
index d5e44de011..2a9fed5130 100644
--- a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/Command.cpp
+++ b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/Command.cpp
@@ -778,14 +778,9 @@ void CmdTechDrawClipPlus::activated(int iMsg)
     std::string ClipName = clip->getNameInDocument();
     std::string ViewName = view->getNameInDocument();
 
-    double newX = clip->Width.getValue() / 2.0;
-    double newY = clip->Height.getValue() / 2.0;
-
     openCommand("ClipPlus");
     doCommand(Doc,"App.activeDocument().%s.ViewObject.Visibility = False",ViewName.c_str());
     doCommand(Doc,"App.activeDocument().%s.addView(App.activeDocument().%s)",ClipName.c_str(),ViewName.c_str());
-    doCommand(Doc,"App.activeDocument().%s.X = %.3f",ViewName.c_str(),newX);
-    doCommand(Doc,"App.activeDocument().%s.Y = %.3f",ViewName.c_str(),newY);
     doCommand(Doc,"App.activeDocument().%s.ViewObject.Visibility = True",ViewName.c_str());
     updateActive();
     commitCommand();
diff --git a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGCustomClip.cpp b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGCustomClip.cpp
index 81cc055897..bb3ffb7932 100644
--- a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGCustomClip.cpp
+++ b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGCustomClip.cpp
@@ -35,6 +35,8 @@
 #include <Base/Console.h>
 #include <Base/Parameter.h>
 
+#include "ZVALUE.h"
+#include "QGICMark.h"
 #include "QGCustomClip.h"
 
 using namespace TechDrawGui;
@@ -47,6 +49,7 @@ QGCustomClip::QGCustomClip()
     setFlag(QGraphicsItem::ItemIsSelectable, false);
     setFlag(QGraphicsItem::ItemIsMovable, false);
     setFlag(QGraphicsItem::ItemClipsChildrenToShape, true);
+//    setFlag(QGraphicsItem::ItemClipsChildrenToShape, false);   //good for debugging
     m_rect = QRectF(0.,0.,10.,10.);
 }
 
@@ -96,3 +99,19 @@ QRectF QGCustomClip::boundingRect() const     //sb shape()?
     return m_rect;
 }
 
+void QGCustomClip::makeMark(double x, double y)
+{
+    QGICMark* cmItem = new QGICMark(-1);
+    cmItem->setParentItem(this);
+    cmItem->setPos(x,y);
+    cmItem->setThick(1.0);
+    cmItem->setSize(40.0);
+    cmItem->setZValue(ZVALUE::VERTEX);
+}
+
+void QGCustomClip::makeMark(Base::Vector3d v)
+{
+    makeMark(v.x,v.y);
+}
+
+
diff --git a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGCustomClip.h b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGCustomClip.h
index b35c536863..ab3fb5e3bc 100644
--- a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGCustomClip.h
+++ b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGCustomClip.h
@@ -27,6 +27,8 @@
 #include <QPointF>
 #include <QRectF>
 
+#include <Base/Vector3D.h>
+
 QT_BEGIN_NAMESPACE
 class QPainter;
 class QStyleOptionGraphicsItem;
@@ -51,7 +53,8 @@ public:
     virtual void setRect(QRectF r);
     virtual void setRect(double x, double y, double w, double h);
     virtual QRectF rect();
-    
+    void makeMark(double x, double y);
+    void makeMark(Base::Vector3d v);
 
 protected:
 
diff --git a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIView.cpp b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIView.cpp
index af747d747b..26cbc8f192 100644
--- a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIView.cpp
+++ b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIView.cpp
@@ -51,6 +51,7 @@
 
 #include "Rez.h"
 #include "ZVALUE.h"
+#include "DrawGuiUtil.h"
 #include "QGCustomBorder.h"
 #include "QGCustomLabel.h"
 #include "QGIView.h"
@@ -67,6 +68,7 @@
 #include <Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawViewClip.h>
 #include <Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawProjGroup.h>
 #include <Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawProjGroupItem.h>
+#include <Mod/TechDraw/App/DrawUtil.h>
 
 using namespace TechDrawGui;
 
@@ -118,12 +120,14 @@ void QGIView::alignTo(QGraphicsItem*item, const QString &alignment)
 QVariant QGIView::itemChange(GraphicsItemChange change, const QVariant &value)
 {
     QPointF newPos(0.0,0.0);
-    if(change == ItemPositionChange && scene()) {
-        newPos = value.toPointF();
+//    if(change == ItemPositionChange && scene()) {
+    if(change == ItemPositionHasChanged && scene()) {
+        newPos = value.toPointF();            //position within parent!
         if(locked){
             newPos.setX(pos().x());
             newPos.setY(pos().y());
         }
+        
         // TODO  find a better data structure for this
         // this is just a pair isn't it?
         if (getViewObject()->isDerivedFrom(TechDraw::DrawProjGroupItem::getClassTypeId())) {
@@ -209,31 +213,49 @@ void QGIView::hoverLeaveEvent(QGraphicsSceneHoverEvent *event)
 
 void QGIView::setPosition(qreal x, qreal y)
 {
+    double newX = x;
+    double newY;
+    double oldX = pos().x();
+    double oldY = pos().y();
     if (!isInnerView()) {
-        setPos(x,-y);                                                 //position on page
+        newY = -y;
     } else {
-        setPos(x,getYInClip(y));                                      //position in Clip
+        newY = getYInClip(y);
+    }
+    if ( (TechDraw::DrawUtil::fpCompare(newX,oldX)) &&
+         (TechDraw::DrawUtil::fpCompare(newY,oldY)) ) {
+        return;
+    } else {
+        setPos(newX,newY);
     }
 }
 
+//is this needed anymore???
 double QGIView::getYInClip(double y)
 {
+    return -y;
+}
+
+QGIViewClip* QGIView::getClipGroup(void)
+{
+    if (!getViewObject()->isInClip()) {
+        Base::Console().Log( "Logic Error - getClipGroup called for child "
+                         "(%s) not in Clip\n", getViewName() );
+        return nullptr;
+    }
+    
+    QGIViewClip* result = nullptr;
     auto parentClip( dynamic_cast<QGCustomClip*>( parentItem() ) );
     if (parentClip) {
         auto parentView( dynamic_cast<QGIViewClip*>( parentClip->parentItem() ) );
         if (parentView) {
-            auto parentFeat( dynamic_cast<TechDraw::DrawViewClip*>(parentView->getViewObject()) );
-            if (parentFeat) {
-                return Rez::guiX(parentFeat->Height.getValue()) - y;
-            }
+            result = parentView;
         }
     }
-
-    Base::Console().Log( "Logic Error - getYInClip called for child "
-                         "(%s) not in Clip\n", getViewName() );
-    return 0;
+    return result;
 }
 
+
 void QGIView::updateView(bool update)
 {
     if (getViewObject()->LockPosition.getValue()) {
@@ -242,7 +264,7 @@ void QGIView::updateView(bool update)
         setFlag(QGraphicsItem::ItemIsMovable, true);
     }
 
-    if (getViewObject()->X.isTouched() ||
+    if (getViewObject()->X.isTouched() ||                   //change in feat position
         getViewObject()->Y.isTouched()) {
         double featX = Rez::guiX(getViewObject()->X.getValue());
         double featY = Rez::guiX(getViewObject()->Y.getValue());
diff --git a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIView.h b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIView.h
index 07966744a9..e005916755 100644
--- a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIView.h
+++ b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIView.h
@@ -47,6 +47,7 @@ class QGCustomLabel;
 class QGCustomText;
 class QGICaption;
 class MDIViewPage;
+class QGIViewClip;
 
 class TechDrawGuiExport  QGIView : public QGraphicsItemGroup
 {
@@ -88,6 +89,8 @@ public:
     void isInnerView(bool state) { m_innerView = state; }
     double getYInClip(double y);
     /** @} */
+    QGIViewClip* getClipGroup(void);
+
 
     void alignTo(QGraphicsItem*, const QString &alignment);
     void setLocked(bool /*state*/ = true) { locked = true; }
diff --git a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIViewClip.cpp b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIViewClip.cpp
index 6978d7c97e..79c954ebbf 100644
--- a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIViewClip.cpp
+++ b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIViewClip.cpp
@@ -37,6 +37,7 @@
 #include "Rez.h"
 #include "QGCustomRect.h"
 #include "QGCustomClip.h"
+#include "DrawGuiUtil.h"
 #include "QGIViewClip.h"
 
 using namespace TechDrawGui;
@@ -109,8 +110,8 @@ void QGIViewClip::drawClip()
     prepareGeometryChange();
     double h = viewClip->Height.getValue();
     double w = viewClip->Width.getValue();
-    QRectF r = QRectF(0,0,Rez::guiX(w),Rez::guiX(h));
-    m_frame->setRect(r);
+    QRectF r = QRectF(-Rez::guiX(w)/2.0,-Rez::guiX(h)/2.0,Rez::guiX(w),Rez::guiX(h));
+    m_frame->setRect(r);                    // (-50,-50) -> (50,50)
     m_frame->setPos(0.,0.);
     if (viewClip->ShowFrame.getValue()) {
         m_frame->show();
@@ -118,8 +119,13 @@ void QGIViewClip::drawClip()
         m_frame->hide();
     }
 
-    m_cliparea->setRect(r.adjusted(-1,-1,1,1));                        //TODO: clip just outside frame or just inside??
+    //probably a slicker way to do this?
+    QPointF midFrame   = m_frame->boundingRect().center();
+    QPointF midMapped  = mapFromItem(m_frame,midFrame);
+    QPointF clipOrigin = mapToItem(m_cliparea,midMapped);
 
+    m_cliparea->setRect(r.adjusted(-1,-1,1,1));
+    
     std::vector<std::string> childNames = viewClip->getChildViewNames();
     //for all child Views in Clip, add the graphics representation of the View to the Clip group
     for(std::vector<std::string>::iterator it = childNames.begin(); it != childNames.end(); it++) {
@@ -131,9 +137,9 @@ void QGIViewClip::drawClip()
                 scene()->removeItem(qgiv);
                 m_cliparea->addToGroup(qgiv);
                 qgiv->isInnerView(true);
-                double x = qgiv->getViewObject()->X.getValue();
-                double y = qgiv->getViewObject()->Y.getValue();
-                qgiv->setPosition(Rez::guiX(x),Rez::guiX(y));
+                double x = Rez::guiX(qgiv->getViewObject()->X.getValue());
+                double y = Rez::guiX(qgiv->getViewObject()->Y.getValue());
+                qgiv->setPosition(clipOrigin.x() + x, clipOrigin.y() + y);
                 if (viewClip->ShowLabels.getValue()) {
                     qgiv->toggleBorder(true);
                 } else {
diff --git a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIViewClip.h b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIViewClip.h
index 8b64d27295..4a9a9ab95f 100644
--- a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIViewClip.h
+++ b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/QGIViewClip.h
@@ -46,6 +46,8 @@ public:
     virtual void updateView(bool update = false) override;
 
     virtual void draw() override;
+    QGCustomRect* getFrame(void) {return m_frame;}
+    QGCustomClip* getClipArea(void) {return m_cliparea;}
 
 protected:
     void drawClip();
diff --git a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/ViewProviderViewClip.cpp b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/ViewProviderViewClip.cpp
index 06e84224b1..14e34732fb 100644
--- a/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/ViewProviderViewClip.cpp
+++ b/src/Mod/TechDraw/Gui/ViewProviderViewClip.cpp
@@ -59,18 +59,6 @@ ViewProviderViewClip::~ViewProviderViewClip()
 
 void ViewProviderViewClip::updateData(const App::Property* prop)
 {
-    //Base::Console().Log("ViewProviderViewClip::updateData - Update View: %s\n",prop->getName());
-    if (prop == &(getViewObject()->Height)      ||
-        prop == &(getViewObject()->Width)       ||
-        prop == &(getViewObject()->ShowFrame)   ||
-        prop == &(getViewObject()->ShowLabels)  ||
-        prop == &(getViewObject()->Views) ) {
-        // redraw QGIVP
-        QGIView* qgiv = getQView();
-        if (qgiv) {
-            qgiv->updateView(true);
-        }
-     }
      ViewProviderDrawingView::updateData(prop);
 }